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Re For as little as another two cents what do we get

Message-ID:<4bd9493e-4b7c-4ccb-ad7c-b4bb7d15911e@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Subject:

Re: For as little as another two cents, what do we get?

Date:Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:14:47 +0100


On Jul 21, 3:03=A0am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 8, 2:06=A0pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 29, 3:47=A0pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 26, 10:57=A0am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Perhaps all we need in addition to the spendy and performance limit=
ed
> > > > CoRoT is TRACEe3 (1000 fold better resolution) at less than a third
> > > > the cost, or perhaps three TRACEe3 observatories for roughly the sa=
me
> > > > cost as one CoRoT.
>
> > > > The original TRACE of only 250 kg (still functioning) was a fast-tr=
ack
> > > > developed satellite as a seriously dirt cheap solar observatory,
> > > > deployed by the little and costly Pegasus XL, so thereby the R&D fo=
r
> > > > accomplishing a thousand fold optical/imaging improvement by the sa=
me
> > > > team should be as equally quick and dirt cheap, although too large =
for
> > > > another spendy launch via Pegasus XL.
>
> > > > TRACEe3 at perhaps a mass of as little as 500 kg<1000 kg should hav=
e
> > > > no problems whatsoever looking directly at the Sirius star/solar
> > > > system. =A0With its mirror optics, greatly extended focal length an=
d
> > > > newer CCD imager could extend its observing spectrum well into far/
> > > > extreme UVc, although the telephoto optics already utilized by the
> > > > existing TRACE along with those narrow bandpass filters would still=
 be
> > > > more than sufficient for UVa through IR imaging.
>
> > > > Ultra flat black interior coatings via nano carbon tubes should als=
o
> > > > improve the imaging results of TRACEe3 and most any other optics, a=
nd
> > > > we do need a replacement for the existing TRACE anyway because its
> > > > maneuvering fuel is running low, as well as any one of its essentia=
l
> > > > gyros could fail at most any time. =A0A decade worth of CCD improve=
ments
> > > > and better optics as well as faster rad-hard processors that are mo=
re
> > > > energy efficient is only going to make this upgrade easier.
> > > > =A0http://trace.lmsal.com/
> > > > =A0http://directory.eoportal.org/presentations/129/10301.html
>
> > > > Possibly an upgraded Shtil Launch Vehicle (in surplus inventory alo=
ng
> > > > with a pair of small surplus SRBs) could deploy a TRACEe3 payload f=
or
> > > > as little as $1000/kg.
> > > > =A0http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/russia/shtil.htm
>
> > > > How much is the all-inclusive (meaning birth to grave) CoRoT actual=
ly
> > > > costing us? =A0Can it even look at Sirius without over-saturating i=
ts
> > > > observing instrument?
> > > > =A0http://www.corot.de/Download/Corot_start_kit_English.pdf
>
> > > > Cost per kg from Earth to Low earth orbit (unmanned)
> > > > =A0http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=3DFinancial_effort_esti=
mation
>
> > > > It must have been terribly spendy (including its launch via the Soy=
uz
> > > > launch vehicle), because nowhere has any accounting of the satellit=
e
> > > > observatory R&D plus its mission cost =A0been mentioned. =A0If it c=
an=92t
> > > > even look at the stellar vibrance and seismic activity of Sirius, t=
hen
> > > > what good is it?
>
> > > > I found one old blog suggesting the 640 kg CoRoT investment was up =
to
> > > > 170 million euros ($225M). =A0That doesn=92t seem all that cheap fo=
r just
> > > > another orbiting telescope, and probably that amount didn=92t even
> > > > include its honest share of the spendy four stage launch or the ann=
ual/
> > > > decade budget for gathering and publishing its data. =A0A TRACEe3 c=
ould
> > > > be accomplished for as little as one cent per human population, as
> > > > well as deployed and operated for a decade on less than another one
> > > > cent per human population. =A0TRACEe3 for two cents seems like a pr=
etty
> > > > damn good deal, especially when we could see the extremely vibrant
> > > > photosphere of Sirius A and possibly even a few pixels worth of Sir=
ius
> > > > B.
>
> > > > =A0~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / =93Guth Usenet=94
>
> > > You folks do realize that I'm talking about a one-time expense or dra=
w
> > > of 2 cents per global populous of 6.75 billion individuals. =A0In mos=
t
> > > states and many other nations you could get a 5 cent refund on an
> > > aluminum soda or beer can, or in Michigan we're talking about getting
> > > a dime per beverage bottle or can. =A0So, how poor do we have to get =
in
> > > order for a one-time charge of 2 cents being too much to ask for?
>
> > We're talking of humanity roughly spending 2 cents per decade for each
> > TRACEe3, though perhaps consolidating three of these nifty
> > observatories (two TRACEe2 and one TRACEe3) for as little as 5 cents
> > per decade, seems rather dirt cheap.
>
> It certainly would be nice having a compact TRACEe3 (1000 fold better
> than our existing TRACE) for having that kind of detailed look-see at
> other nearby stars, especially of such an extremely bright Sirius.
>
> Obviously our local environment and of course that of our sun would
> have been affected by the excess of whatever the Sirius molecular
> cloud had to offer, not to mention that of it's terrific original mass
> doing its Newtonian gravity thing. =A0After the helium flashover of
> Sirius B and the subsequent Newtonian tidal radius loss of its grip
> upon whatever planets, would of course be yet another opportunity for
> our nearby solar system to grow.
>
> And btw; =A0don't let the usual gauntlet of these Usenet/newsgroup
> bogeyman, faith-based pretenders and mainstream pranksters keep us
> from the task of deductively and otherwise independently thinking for
> ourselves, because now and then it=92s perfectly OK to color outside the
> lines.
>
> =A0~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / =93Guth Usenet=94

So, instead of progress we have this thing of ignoring whatever is
technically doable and banishing those with nothing but good
intentions, and otherwise we have this other lemming genetic disorder
and subsequent obsession of no longer thinking for ourselves.  No
wonder this nation has been going nowhere.

 ~ BG

Message-ID:<c628b4e3-6b95-4fbd-9afd-b17a3c359e5d@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Subject:

Re: For as little as another two cents, what do we get?

Date:Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:59:24 +0100


On Jul 22, 6:41=A0am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 8, 2:06=A0pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 29, 3:47=A0pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 26, 10:57=A0am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Perhaps all we need in addition to the spendy and performance limit=
ed
> > > > CoRoT is TRACEe3 (1000 fold better resolution) at less than a third
> > > > the cost, or perhaps three TRACEe3 observatories for roughly the sa=
me
> > > > cost as one CoRoT.
>
> > > > The original TRACE of only 250 kg (still functioning) was a fast-tr=
ack
> > > > developed satellite as a seriously dirt cheap solar observatory,
> > > > deployed by the little and costly Pegasus XL, so thereby the R&D fo=
r
> > > > accomplishing a thousand fold optical/imaging improvement by the sa=
me
> > > > team should be as equally quick and dirt cheap, although too large =
for
> > > > another spendy launch via Pegasus XL.
>
> > > > TRACEe3 at perhaps a mass of as little as 500 kg<1000 kg should hav=
e
> > > > no problems whatsoever looking directly at the Sirius star/solar
> > > > system. =A0With its mirror optics, greatly extended focal length an=
d
> > > > newer CCD imager could extend its observing spectrum well into far/
> > > > extreme UVc, although the telephoto optics already utilized by the
> > > > existing TRACE along with those narrow bandpass filters would still=
 be
> > > > more than sufficient for UVa through IR imaging.
>
> > > > Ultra flat black interior coatings via nano carbon tubes should als=
o
> > > > improve the imaging results of TRACEe3 and most any other optics, a=
nd
> > > > we do need a replacement for the existing TRACE anyway because its
> > > > maneuvering fuel is running low, as well as any one of its essentia=
l
> > > > gyros could fail at most any time. =A0A decade worth of CCD improve=
ments
> > > > and better optics as well as faster rad-hard processors that are mo=
re
> > > > energy efficient is only going to make this upgrade easier.
> > > > =A0http://trace.lmsal.com/
> > > > =A0http://directory.eoportal.org/presentations/129/10301.html
>
> > > > Possibly an upgraded Shtil Launch Vehicle (in surplus inventory alo=
ng
> > > > with a pair of small surplus SRBs) could deploy a TRACEe3 payload f=
or
> > > > as little as $1000/kg.
> > > > =A0http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/russia/shtil.htm
>
> > > > How much is the all-inclusive (meaning birth to grave) CoRoT actual=
ly
> > > > costing us? =A0Can it even look at Sirius without over-saturating i=
ts
> > > > observing instrument?
> > > > =A0http://www.corot.de/Download/Corot_start_kit_English.pdf
>
> > > > Cost per kg from Earth to Low earth orbit (unmanned)
> > > > =A0http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=3DFinancial_effort_esti=
mation
>
> > > > It must have been terribly spendy (including its launch via the Soy=
uz
> > > > launch vehicle), because nowhere has any accounting of the satellit=
e
> > > > observatory R&D plus its mission cost =A0been mentioned. =A0If it c=
an=92t
> > > > even look at the stellar vibrance and seismic activity of Sirius, t=
hen
> > > > what good is it?
>
> > > > I found one old blog suggesting the 640 kg CoRoT investment was up =
to
> > > > 170 million euros ($225M). =A0That doesn=92t seem all that cheap fo=
r just
> > > > another orbiting telescope, and probably that amount didn=92t even
> > > > include its honest share of the spendy four stage launch or the ann=
ual/
> > > > decade budget for gathering and publishing its data. =A0A TRACEe3 c=
ould
> > > > be accomplished for as little as one cent per human population, as
> > > > well as deployed and operated for a decade on less than another one
> > > > cent per human population. =A0TRACEe3 for two cents seems like a pr=
etty
> > > > damn good deal, especially when we could see the extremely vibrant
> > > > photosphere of Sirius A and possibly even a few pixels worth of Sir=
ius
> > > > B.
>
> > > > =A0~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / =93Guth Usenet=94
>
> > > You folks do realize that I'm talking about a one-time expense or dra=
w
> > > of 2 cents per global populous of 6.75 billion individuals. =A0In mos=
t
> > > states and many other nations you could get a 5 cent refund on an
> > > aluminum soda or beer can, or in Michigan we're talking about getting
> > > a dime per beverage bottle or can. =A0So, how poor do we have to get =
in
> > > order for a one-time charge of 2 cents being too much to ask for?
>
> > We're talking of humanity roughly spending 2 cents per decade for each
> > TRACEe3, though perhaps consolidating three of these nifty
> > observatories (two TRACEe2 and one TRACEe3) for as little as 5 cents
> > per decade.
>
> What exactly would a truly intelligent ET think of us?
>
> So once again, instead of seeing any real progress we have this other
> better thing of systematically ignoring and/or obfuscating on behalf
> of avoiding truths and whatever is technically doable, as well as
> banishing and/or trashing those with nothing but good intentions, and
> otherwise we have this other lemming genetic disorder and subsequent
> obsession of no longer deductively thinking for ourselves (ideal
> minions for warlords and cabals). =A0No wonder this nation and the world
> in general has been going nowhere.
>
> Now try to imagine an entire world discovered by ETs, as populated by
> lemmings, such as Eden/Earth.
>
> =A0~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / =93Guth Usenet=94


So, I find you in another thead where you are just talking to
yourself!

Double-A

Message-ID:<22e48df6-915f-416b-898b-3c91ab59b164@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Subject:

Re: For as little as another two cents, what do we get?

Date:Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:53:56 +0100


On Jul 23, 7:54=A0am, Martin Leese <ple...@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID>
wrote:
> Double-A wrote:
> > So, I find you in another thead where you are just talking to
> > yourself!
>
> Please don't feed the trolls. =A0Guth exists
> only to gain attention.

And the point of yourself being here is???????????? (other than
represent your Zionist blood-sucking God)

 ~ BG

Message-ID:<da17f0b3-6bd6-4238-b645-67f295da7af3@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Subject:

Re: For as little as another two cents, what do we get?

Date:Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:27:27 +0100


On Jul 27, 7:48=A0pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 6:41=A0am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 8, 2:06=A0pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 29, 3:47=A0pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 26, 10:57=A0am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Perhaps all we need in addition to the spendy and performance lim=
ited
> > > > > CoRoT is TRACEe3 (1000 fold better resolution) at less than a thi=
rd
> > > > > the cost, or perhaps three TRACEe3 observatories for roughly the =
same
> > > > > cost as one CoRoT.
>
> > > > > The original TRACE of only 250 kg (still functioning) was a fast-=
track
> > > > > developed satellite as a seriously dirt cheap solar observatory,
> > > > > deployed by the little and costly Pegasus XL, so thereby the R&D =
for
> > > > > accomplishing a thousand fold optical/imaging improvement by the =
same
> > > > > team should be as equally quick and dirt cheap, although too larg=
e for
> > > > > another spendy launch via Pegasus XL.
>
> > > > > TRACEe3 at perhaps a mass of as little as 500 kg<1000 kg should h=
ave
> > > > > no problems whatsoever looking directly at the Sirius star/solar
> > > > > system. =A0With its mirror optics, greatly extended focal length =
and
> > > > > newer CCD imager could extend its observing spectrum well into fa=
r/
> > > > > extreme UVc, although the telephoto optics already utilized by th=
e
> > > > > existing TRACE along with those narrow bandpass filters would sti=
ll be
> > > > > more than sufficient for UVa through IR imaging.
>
> > > > > Ultra flat black interior coatings via nano carbon tubes should a=
lso
> > > > > improve the imaging results of TRACEe3 and most any other optics,=
 and
> > > > > we do need a replacement for the existing TRACE anyway because it=
s
> > > > > maneuvering fuel is running low, as well as any one of its essent=
ial
> > > > > gyros could fail at most any time. =A0A decade worth of CCD impro=
vements
> > > > > and better optics as well as faster rad-hard processors that are =
more
> > > > > energy efficient is only going to make this upgrade easier.
> > > > > =A0http://trace.lmsal.com/
> > > > > =A0http://directory.eoportal.org/presentations/129/10301.html
>
> > > > > Possibly an upgraded Shtil Launch Vehicle (in surplus inventory a=
long
> > > > > with a pair of small surplus SRBs) could deploy a TRACEe3 payload=
 for
> > > > > as little as $1000/kg.
> > > > > =A0http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/russia/shtil.htm
>
> > > > > How much is the all-inclusive (meaning birth to grave) CoRoT actu=
ally
> > > > > costing us? =A0Can it even look at Sirius without over-saturating=
 its
> > > > > observing instrument?
> > > > > =A0http://www.corot.de/Download/Corot_start_kit_English.pdf
>
> > > > > Cost per kg from Earth to Low earth orbit (unmanned)
> > > > > =A0http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=3DFinancial_effort_es=
timation
>
> > > > > It must have been terribly spendy (including its launch via the S=
oyuz
> > > > > launch vehicle), because nowhere has any accounting of the satell=
ite
> > > > > observatory R&D plus its mission cost =A0been mentioned. =A0If it=
 can=92t
> > > > > even look at the stellar vibrance and seismic activity of Sirius,=
 then
> > > > > what good is it?
>
> > > > > I found one old blog suggesting the 640 kg CoRoT investment was u=
p to
> > > > > 170 million euros ($225M). =A0That doesn=92t seem all that cheap =
for just
> > > > > another orbiting telescope, and probably that amount didn=92t eve=
n
> > > > > include its honest share of the spendy four stage launch or the a=
nnual/
> > > > > decade budget for gathering and publishing its data. =A0A TRACEe3=
 could
> > > > > be accomplished for as little as one cent per human population, a=
s
> > > > > well as deployed and operated for a decade on less than another o=
ne
> > > > > cent per human population. =A0TRACEe3 for two cents seems like a =
pretty
> > > > > damn good deal, especially when we could see the extremely vibran=
t
> > > > > photosphere of Sirius A and possibly even a few pixels worth of S=
irius
> > > > > B.
>
> > > > > =A0~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / =93Guth Usenet=
=94
>
> > > > You folks do realize that I'm talking about a one-time expense or d=
raw
> > > > of 2 cents per global populous of 6.75 billion individuals. =A0In m=
ost
> > > > states and many other nations you could get a 5 cent refund on an
> > > > aluminum soda or beer can, or in Michigan we're talking about getti=
ng
> > > > a dime per beverage bottle or can. =A0So, how poor do we have to ge=
t in
> > > > order for a one-time charge of 2 cents being too much to ask for?
>
> > > We're talking of humanity roughly spending 2 cents per decade for eac=
h
> > > TRACEe3, though perhaps consolidating three of these nifty
> > > observatories (two TRACEe2 and one TRACEe3) for as little as 5 cents
> > > per decade.
>
> > What exactly would a truly intelligent ET think of us?
>
> > So once again, instead of seeing any real progress we have this other
> > better thing of systematically ignoring and/or obfuscating on behalf
> > of avoiding truths and whatever is technically doable, as well as
> > banishing and/or trashing those with nothing but good intentions, and
> > otherwise we have this other lemming genetic disorder and subsequent
> > obsession of no longer deductively thinking for ourselves (ideal
> > minions for warlords and cabals). =A0No wonder this nation and the worl=
d
> > in general has been going nowhere.
>
> > Now try to imagine an entire world discovered by ETs, as populated by
> > lemmings, such as Eden/Earth.
>
> So why the great silent treatment? (is TRACE a dirty word?)

I=92d thought this topic of TRACEe2 and TRACEe3 had died, by way of the
usual topic/author stalking and bashing that mainstream minions
(usually faith-based republicans), status-quo bigots and brown-nosed
clowns that otherwise ignore and/or banish whatever rocks their kosher
boat.  But lo and behold, my shadow rabbi comes to its rescue.

 Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / =93Guth Usenet=94